Deja vu.
I started this blog in 2006 because I felt like the only 20-something gardener on Earth. Since this blog's inception, I've met more people than I can shake a stick at all due to my online activities. They're a wide variety of diverse folks, in race, age, and geography. I've even found people *gasp* like myself. More than I ever realized were out there.
I realize that it's easy for people to generalize and put people in boxes. Black, white, old, young, man, woman, Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative. But I wonder if people do it just because it makes them less uncomfortable about themselves if they can categorize other people. As if you know who you really are ONLY if you can clearly define what you are NOT.
I don't know about you, but people continually prove stereotypes wrong.
Maybe I AM an outlier.
I'm 28 years old.
I've owned two homes.
I own my current home.
I live in the suburbs.
I've been married 5 years (almost 6).
I'm on half of a DINK couple.
I love gardening.
I've gardened my whole life.
These are my favorite jeans.
I have heard more nonsense about "people my age" recently that I think is misguided. Really? Are all 20-something clubbing crazies? Why do you say only 30-somethings are new homeowners? I had just turned 22 when we bought our first house. Oh my god I could go on and on about the crap I've heard lately.
It's like I could say that all women gardeners over a certain age ONLY like roses. THERE. I SAID IT.
Peeps, let's stop with the categorization of age groups and the rampant AGEISM in gardening. Gen Y is not "lost" or "undiscovered" - there are those of us that have been there all along. Me. Fern at Life On the Balcony. Adriana of Anarchy in the Garden. Gayla at You Grow Girl. We know exactly where we're at. And we need your sage wisdom and gardening advice without being put into a box.
If it's that important to you, let's call me a punk.
EDIT by Chris -
I think this video is appropriate.
EDIT by Katie -
Yes, I do think it's ironic that Chris posted a video of a cartoon.
Thanks for everyone’s comments. I don’t usually stir the shit for the sake of stirring/driving traffic like certain other blogs. This is not about readership to me; I’m often surprised that anyone cares at all. I feel very strongly about this issue, and it definitely came through loud and clear. I appreciate everyone that chimed in and joined the conversation. ♥
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39 comments:
Amen! Those are impressive "outlier" credentials.
So glad you gals have shown that tending to a garden doesn't start once you're retired. It's sad really, when people twice my age ASSUME that people my age only garden to grow pot plants. Have I mentioned how much I hate roses though? The smell of them reminds me of perfume that old ladies wear..haha....
Lovin what you have to say. Go girl.
Jen
Woot!
Carrie--Does that mean you don't want to go in on an order of Maui Wowie seeds with me?
Very well put. Ageism is the worst, from all spectrums.
From another outlier at the older end of the spectrum. I'm 54. Been gardening since I was 17. I've never been married. (officially) I have a 15 year old son. I live in a teeny apartment in the city and have a little garden in the country. I DO love roses. (and some old lady perfumes!)
Love your jeans, but your knee must get dirty when you're kneeling in the garden. ;^)
Great way you put that! It's amazign how we all feel we are the only ones cause the neighbors are going out shopping or dinners & movies... not my thing. Totally agree with the web and it's openned a new world up to meeting those with same likes as me. You Rock! er...Garden!
Because my blog isn't exclusively gardening, I don't encounter the folks you are speaking about. If one generation is putting another generation in a box----especially about gardening, then all is lost.
.
There is so much each one can teach the other. I was blessed enough to have been raised with a garden. My dad taught me. Many 20-somethings may not have had that and need older folks to pass on wisdom without belittling them.
The opposite is true as well. Younger folks might have learned a new method that would be extremely helpful to the next older generation. The older generation needs to continue to learn. What was right for my dad, wasn't necessarily the perfect way. He knew that about himself and I know that about myself.
I am, ahem, older and I HATE roses. They stink. (Yeah, my hubby loves that he never has to buy me roses.)
Not having a clue is unfortunately common but not related to age. Sure glad you've got your life together!
I agree, it's all very tiresome. From the other side, several of my friends (mid-fifties like myself) are worrying themselves sick about never finding work again because of their age. I'm not sure they're right, will be interesting to find out.
Aside, I've always disliked roses. Yeah, maybe a climbing rose rambling around, but the hybrid teas don't do it for me. Mr Mouse and I bought our first house while in graduate school, when I was in my mid-twenties.
I'm always thrilled when I meet younger gardeners, and hope you're just as thrilled to meet some older gardeners. I really think the age doesn't matter that much -- you sound like a more experienced gardener than I am.
That is one awesome lower half figure you have. Who cares about the jeans. Alpha male comment aside :) Owning your own home is great... we own our home, but dont have it paid off here in sunny southern California where prices are ridiculous. Sure, if we moved to Vermont or (cough, cough) Detroit we could OWN several houses bought and paid for. Wait, why do we live here again? Ohh yah... sunshine.
Totally true! People look at me like some crazy hippie because I care about what I eat and I spend a great deal of time growing food, and processing food. I've been gardening since my mid 20s and canning the last couple years and people are weirded out by that. I do have one rose, a little one...but I'm having trouble keeping it alive. Great post.
tru.dat
Other than just barely breaking the 30 mark (barely)
being male
and having recently adopted 2 kids...
I'm right there with ya.
Oh you crazy kids, always causing trouble high on your rock and or roll.
Hurray! I'm not the only one who wonders about that 20s who are "crazy clubbers" stereotype! My mom finally just started gardening, after criticizing me FOREVER about it (as well as volunteering oddly enough because "people my age" aren't supposed to be volunteering. Ugh, I wish there were more people our age, like us, that live near me, it's not that I don't enjoy the company of my older suburban neighbors, but some things are easier to talk about generationally (esp the internet and memes, it's like global inside jokes) that would make life around here, well, livelier.
http://persephoneinbloom.blogspot.com/
As long as they stay off my lawn, the younger generations are ok with me.
As far as I can tell, there is very little ageism in the blogging/gardening community. The problems usually start more when you get to the professional/non-professional boundaries. Even more problems begin when you get to the non-blogging gardeners who think that computers are the devil. What has happened in my experience is that if you are a hacker (old sense) then you must spend too much time on a computer to know anything about gardening. I've been doing both since I was able to hold a trowel or bang on a keyboard. I got into a lot of trouble banging on a keyboard, they were expensive at the time and originally not a component but part of the system itself. Anyhow, it can be hard to convince people otherwise if they already have a low opinion of your abilities and if they don't use computers then blogging about it won't help.
The only thing that I have found that will convince someone that you really do know what you're doing is to show them your garden.
It was a spring day and my wife and I had just finished putting in another bed in the front when one of our friends came by to drop something off. They got out of the car and looked at the finished product and said, "I didn't know you could garden!" I was unable to speak for at least a minute. Since then they have come to me for gardening advice although over 30 years my senior.
I at least think I know where you're coming from.
32,Own Home at 25,Suburbs, Married 13 years (married at 19, that's a tough one), gardening my whole life.
I happen to work around a lot of people that the stereotype you have mentioned would fit pretty well which is probably why it still persists in the minds of many.
BrownThumbMama – Not trying to be impressive, just livin my life. Sometimes I get bent out of shape. This is what bends me back into shape. Trying to stay away from the word “rant” because of its negative association for me.
Carri – Gardening is transcendental in that all ages can (and do) participate. I just don’t appreciate being pigeon-holed. Yes, I have a lot to learn through life experience that I don’t yet have, but it drives me nuts when folks discredit what I’ve already accomplished by painting “young people” with a broad brush. And the pot thing seems to be common amongst many gardeners I’ve run into – but has never been asked of me. Wonder why that is? Guess I’m all straight-laced or something.
Muddy Boot Dreams – Thanks for the support. Hugs!
Fern – Hahahahaha. You’re crackin’ me up.
Sarah – Thanks for weighing in here. As you are well aware, boxes can be dangerous, illustrated by my “roses” comment. I have nothing against roses, for the record. Ageism is no less hurtful than racism, in my humble opinion. And those are “house” jeans. I don’t typically wear them outside anymore. They put in a long life and are living the good life in retirement.
Curlytop – I had the distinct pleasure of flying to Chicago last May to meet some of the people that shaped me as a garden blogger over the last few years. It was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life to date. When I got back, I started to seek out those folks in my area whom I could connect with, and those friendships have been rewarding also.
CeeCee – Yep, my blog isn’t exclusively gardening anymore either. I live a dynamic life and blog about those things most important to me, just like you. I have learned much from listening to folks who have been there, done that. I’m not recreating the wheel or really discovering anything new. I appreciate those friendships that aren’t belittling, but mutual - and have found many of them in the last couple years. Thanks for stopping by. Good to hear from you.
Chile – Well put. I like to think I have my life together.
Town Mouse – I’ve been fighting this stereotype since I started blogging, so yes, VERY tiresome. I don’t disagree that certain age groups might face similar circumstances, like the ones you’ve mentioned. I do think that generalizing to include all or most people of the same age group does a disservice to everyone and proves that one is just too lazy to make a distinction and it’s easier…to put people in boxes. I like meeting gardeners, REGARDLESS of age. I like to pretend I know a lot, but in reality I learn every single day. A perpetual student of life.
1916Home – Not sure if I should be freaked out by your comment about my tree stump legs or flattered. I’ll choose the latter. Yes, don’t even get me started on NorCal home prices. We bought near the peak and have suffered the ride down like everyone else, but we love our home and NorCal and couldn’t imagine living anywhere else. It’s worth the price of admission. I love California.
GardenMom – Fly your freak flag high and don’t give a damn about what others think. Conformity on social issues never changed the world. People will try to make you feel weird about your activities ONLY because they feel inferior or uncomfortable about themselves. And I like roses, for the record. I was playing devil’s advocate and illustrated the point well, don’t you think? Thanks for stopping by and saying hello!
Kory – Thanks man. I think about your sunroom often. Hope you all are doing well.
MrBrownThumb – If you don’t like the music, I can turn it down.
Persephone – I am thankful for the relationships I’ve cultivated with people “like me” but have remained open and gained a diverse many friendships. A wide world-view and social network is more rewarding than a narrow one. As for my neighbors here in suburbia, when I look for common ground with them I usually find it. I still have much to learn from others and keep my options open, for sure!
Joe Olivas – Oh you guy. |Shaking fist|
Jacob Royer – I honestly still find ageism to be pervasive in garden blogging, although I'll admit that I am oversensitive of the issue. They wonder aloud why “younger folks” aren’t interested in gardening, chatting amongst themselves, and surmise it’s because youngin’s are out partying and renting homes rather than owning them. Once they make the generalization, they completely miss the fact that there are those of us out there, we just aren’t ringing a bell constantly to remind them that we’re already here. (Hello! I’m not lost/missing, I know exactly where I’m at!) My Green Landscaper class last night is what brought about this post, and those generalizations I spoke about were straight out of the mouths of people making them, even as there was a half dozen of us under 30, a dozen or more under 35, sitting right there in front of them. It’s insulting, really. People wouldn’t dare stand up in front of a room of 40 people and make a racial generalization, and if the situation was reversed it would be called age discrimination. I don’t classify my friends based on age. You said it – people tend to have a low opinion of our abilities, which is too bad because these are the people who have much to teach (and learn, it seems). Thanks for chiming in here, we do seem to be coming from the same place. I appreciate it.
Second that!
Im 27.
Don't own a home yet but dangit, I can grow the heck outta some plants! Don't come cryin to me when shit hits the fan and I have all the food in my freezer and root cellar!LOL
Katie - you take it too personally. Don't get me wrong, I'm right there with you if you want stand up!, but don't you think you are more the exception than the rule? I think you are. (Yay for that!)
Most people I know (at 33) are not gardeners. Most people I knew at 25 were not homeowners.
I was a renter until 2 years ago, and I had a garden at every place I lived. I tore up a few back yards over the years. But I was definitely not normal...and I'm very comfortable with that. I think you are too.
Don't worry about what they think.
If people are prejudiciously dismissive - that's unfortunate, but mainly for them.
OMG I love Aqua Teen Hunger Force and I <3 Mr. Brown Thumb!
Here it goes, Jacob Royer made a great point with his comment "The problems usually start more when you get to the professional/non-professional boundaries." But happens when you are properly armed?
I earned a BA in Film Production from CSULB. I completed 16 units, towards a second BA, at the School of Business Administration and Economics at CSUF until I made a career change and I am now pursuing a degree in horticulture. I also plan on participating in the UC Cooperative Extension's Common Ground Program and hopefully become a Master Gardener. Chick of all trades. Check mate.
I manage the Wrigley Village Community Garden in Long Beach, CA. I was the chair of the committee in charge of the project. The project took 1.5 years. I've been living in my neighborhood for less than 2 yrs. How's that for commitment? I’ve participated in several tree plantings with at risk youth and done my fair chair of neighborhood clean-ups. Entitled? Not.
In a little over a year my blog and I have been featured in Sunset Magazine, the Associated Press, E!, and several local zines. I was photographed by a Pulitzer Prize photographer. Boo ya!
I am a heavily tattooed punk rock vegan urban farmer and most importantly community activist. Don’t talk shit about my generation. You’ve been warned.
I think the pigeonholing you're talking about is what I recently heard called 'old fart' talk. There I said it. You can be twenty or fifty or ninety and pass gas--it's not generational.
Can I just add that I also hate being called "kiddo"?
I think a large reason for the gardening stereotypes is because people are just so far removed from the process of growing and creating things.They don't realize that they don't have to rely on stores to get vegetables and plants. So they just assume that the only gardeners out there have blue hair and prune roses.
flowrgrl1 - Yep. You can't eat grass. Or roses, for that matter.
hobomike - I know I take things to personally. Personality flaw I suppose. Hopefully this is the last time I bring up this issue and can finally tell those dismissive folks to get a life. But it makes for good blog fodder, no?
Adriana - Can I just say how much you rock? ♥
Susan aka Miss R. - Yep, let's call 'em like we see 'em. Old Fart talk it is! And you can be any age to engage in it!
Carri - OoooOh yeah! I hate that one too. I can take it socially, but at work I lay into people.
notsocrafty - You said it, not me!! RFLMAO Good point.
I had to get in on this too. I haven't read the word "shit" so many times in a garden post/comments - not to mention saw a ATHF reference.
All you people are our heroes - and if this granny next door doesn't get off our ass about "how we do things"... we might have a whole site dedicated to this topic.
Double Danger - Glad to know we're hitting on all cylinders. :D
Take a deep breath! I'm an (almost) old-lady gardener. I hate roses. What a pain in the patoot. Once, I was a young gardener; what, did you think old gardeners just got up one day and decided "hey I'm 50! Time to garden!"? I know lots and lots of young gardeners. Come on over to MyFolia.com and meet some. (Thanks to MrBrownThumb for cluing me in on your terrific site, btw)
Great post Katie! I'm still raging at the same thing, but about the spectrum of 40s/50s age range :(
We're still DINKs (through no fault of our own) and that's considered plain freaky around here.
I bought my first house at the age of 22. On my own. It made economic sense to me as the mortgage I could get (at an eye watering 13% interest at the time) was still cheaper than renting a tiny flat. I also started a new job in a new area of the country. Whenever my colleagues asked me where I was living and I said 'I'm buying a house', the reaction was 'Oh, I didn't know you were married'. Needless to say I wasn't at the time!
Here's to being an outlier for ever!
Katie... no harm meant in the legs comment :)
My wife grew up in Europe and her family is great with farming and growing stuff. I wish I had 1% knowledge of things that "granny" does. They know what mushrooms to pick for eating, they know what herbs to pick for colds, cuts, aches, etc... they know just how to space veggie seeds and so on and so forth. My wife is your age and she too loves gardening. I try hard, but not very good! Tomatoes I can do. Pumpkins.. I cant mess that up. Watching my inlaws harvest their crops on a small plot of land is amazing. A few year ago we wnt to visit and I spent all of a day picking beans and shelling them. I was amazed at the amount. I wish I had such knowledge. Id love to go there for a year and learn it all.
Xan - Thanks - I used to have an account on MyFolia but found it to be too time consuming for my life right now. I'm not worried about not knowing enough folks of a certain age who garden. That was my old concern. Thanks to the internet, I know PLENTY of folks, young and old, who garden and appreciate the diversity of their life experiences in my life.
VP - Cheers to being an outlier forever! ♥
1916home - Chris got a kick out of that comment. You don't need an encyclopedic knowledge of gardening to consider yourself a gardener! If you have a spoon and have dug with it on your property...viola! Gardener. And one less spoon in the kitchen. Thanks for sharing your story.
"People will try to make you feel weird about your activities ONLY because they feel inferior or uncomfortable about themselves. . ." Fundamental fact of life - so true! People who find it necessary to dis others should go get some counseling or something so they can learn to feel better about THEMSELVES.
From the perspective of this life-long gardening Boomer, I remember the same debate/lament by older generations when I was a 20-something gardener. Many of those who are now older gardeners like me weren't gardening way back then. The art of gardening survived. My generation is now gardening in greater numbers, and prematurely lamenting the death of gardening.
All through my middle and late childhood I got teased by the kids on the bus because my family had a vegetable garden. They all could see it since our house was on a corner lot at the first bus stop. Their families didn't have gardens and they apparently thought my family was backwards and old-fashioned. I named my blog in honor of the teasing. I was called garden girl in a derisive and insulting way. Betcha some of those kids are now gardening or have gardening signifcant others.
I was lucky, especially in those days (1960's) that there wasn't much of a 'generation gap' in my family. Mom liked rock and roll, and the kids got exposed to classical and jazz. We grew up with a solid sense of ourselves, respect for others with different views and different backgrounds than ours, and a willingness to explore and celebrate the differences. It's always been weird for me seeing people disrespect each other instead of working to understand each other.
This kind of thing is a microcosm of most of the bigger challenges the family of humanity faces IMHO. We're all in this together people, and being the eternal optimist, I still hope more of us can figure that out before it's too late. The kids, born and unborn, are depending on us. The sooner we collectively figure it out, the better their chances will be of having a world to grow up in.
I've been in your shoes. I bought my first house when I was just out of school & went off the deep end into gardening. I felt as if I was the only person under 30 who was into gardening. (This was in the days before blogging, when we had to read books by candlelight.) You're right to ignore those who seek to judge based on their preconceived notions. Bust those stereotypes.
My impression is that garden centers are scared in this economy, and they're trying their best to cultivate younger customers. It's clear they are better at cultivating plants.
garden girl - Wow, I like how you kept the moniker that was associated with a negative back when you were a kid and turned it into something completely positive as an adult. I think you said it best, "It's always been weird for me seeing people disrespect each other instead of working to understand each other." Absolutely true.
mcgregorsdaughter - Better at cultivating plants - hahaha! Yes. We're just seen as another market to sell to. Sadly.
Katie: I have always loved your approach to gardening and your ability to communicate your enthusiasm and passion for our shared joy....gardening. Age be darned, we are kindred souls!
Tell it! I do find SM to be a bridge to all. A gateway for any who want to play. Our tweet-up was a good example. There were not barriers, all there for the same reason, newbies and the garden elite...where they were there, but had to leave their otherselves at the door. Long live social media.
Helen @ Gardening With Confidence
Katie I am really quite astounded that this is such a hot topic. I must be the outlier living in the cultural wilderness clueless about such negative views of the alphabet Gens. I don't tweet, but I do get around the web a bit. Ageism among gardeners and the death of gardening has never been my real life experience.
My experience has always been seeing and meeting plenty of young people who are quite passionate about gardening. It never occured to me to ask them why they felt that way or had the interest, like it was something odd for someone their age. Being in the profession certainly gave me more opportunity to be around the diversity of people interested in gardening.
I tend to think like MMGD that this is some misquided marketing ploy turned into a meme within the garden writing/marketing professions and it is totally detached from the real world.
ginger ;D - I totally agree with you. I've never felt out of place age-wise until someone brings it up! I have a very diverse set of friends and love them all for their different viewpoints.
Helen@GWC - Hip hip hooray! Hip hip hooray! I love the internet and all the fine folks I have met.
Christopher - It does seem somewhat silly that this is such a hot topic. What pushed me over the edge to post this was NOT the stuff I was hearing from GWA, but some misguided comments someone made to me in a Green Gardener workshop about my "generation". Like I told ginger, I've never felt out of place age-wise until someone makes it an issue - and typically I find myself feeling more out of place/ageism online than I do when meeting people in person! What it comes down to is this: I am so not fond of being put into a "box" for the sake of being easily described so I can be marketed to. That and the generalizations. Oh the generalizations will get me every time! Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment. It's been fun to talk to my Spring Fling friends, although I do wish it were on happier circumstances.
I think it's great that you're young and have so much passion for what you enjoy doing. It sounds like you're also very responsible - having owned several homes already at your age. So yes, that does make you a little different than most 20 year olds. But in a GOOD way. Don't worry about that. We need a lot more 20 year olds like you and less of the ones with no direction in their lives.
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